In this conversation with Greg Olear, Michael Graetz discusses his book “The Power to Destroy: How the Anti-Tax Movement Hijacked America”' He explores the history and influence of the anti-tax movement, the role of race and xenophobia in shaping it, and the ideological and moral arguments behind it. Graetz also delves into the consequences of irresponsible tax cuts, the significance of taxation in American history, and the challenges of dealing with a GOP that obstructs. He highlights the need for a more nuanced understanding of taxation and the importance of addressing the growing national debt. Finally, they discuss the conservative shift of the Court, the corrupting power of money in politics, and the challenges facing American democracy. Plus: a new memory aid.