4.6 • 11K Ratings
🗓️ 15 March 2022
⏱️ 72 minutes
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0:00.0 | I'm Mr. Klein and this is the Ezra Klein Show. |
0:16.6 | There is this line I've been thinking about from Timothy Snyder's book The Road to Unfreedom, |
0:22.4 | which is a book that when it came out people understood it's about totalitarianism or authoritarianism |
0:27.8 | coming to America but if you read it it is very much about Ukraine. |
0:32.4 | And in that book Snyder writes, there is a difference between memory, the impressions |
0:37.3 | we are given, and history, the connections that we work to make if we wish. |
0:45.7 | So Timothy Snyder is a Yale historian. |
0:49.6 | In recent years he became something of a hero to liberals for a series of books, particularly |
0:54.0 | on tyranny, 20 lessons from the 20th century, which became something like a Bible for |
0:58.8 | worried liberals early in the Trump era. |
1:00.8 | These are books about what it feels like and what you do when your society is beginning |
1:07.9 | to creep down or trip down the road to authoritarianism. |
1:13.1 | But that perspective for Snyder, those learnings, they don't come from his immersion in American |
1:19.2 | politics, they come from his immersion in Ukrainian politics and history. |
1:24.4 | Snyder's core academic subject is Ukraine. |
1:27.5 | He's written six books entirely or partially about Ukraine and these are very much books |
1:31.6 | about the way Ukraine has been repeatedly invaded and turned into a subject by surrounding |
1:37.2 | powers. |
1:38.8 | And in these books something Snyder is very alert to is a way that imagined histories |
1:44.4 | of Ukraine. |
1:45.4 | All stories are myth, feed the justifications used for these bloody invasions of Ukraine. |
1:55.0 | And so a topic for him that emerges out of that is how the stories, particularly when |
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