Welcome to the History Extra podcast, fascinating historical conversations from the makers of BBC History Magazine.

In the spring of 1540, Thomas Cromwell was at the height of his power.

But just a few months later, he found himself at the

scaffold on Tower Hill, preparing to be executed for treason and heresy. What had gone so badly

wrong for Henry VIII's right-hand man? Well, this is a question at the heart of the second series

of the new BBC drama, Wolf Hall.

In advance of its release, Rob Atar spoke to Cromwell's biographer, Professor Dermott McCulloch,

to get an expert's view on his precipitous downfall.

We're talking now as the second season of Wolf Hall, which adapts Hillary Mantell's book,

The Mirror and the Light, is due to appear on BBC One.

And this picks up the story in the aftermath of the execution of Amber Lynn in 1536.

What does the downfall of Amber Lynn mean for Thomas Cromwell?

It was very good news.

What has not been appreciated in the past about the

relationship of Anne Boleyn and Thomas Cromwell was that it was really quite hostile. They were

both interested in the Reformation. That's an underwhelming way of putting it. They both passionately

believed in the church needing reformation.

And both of them were, of course, committed to Henry the 8th's version of reformation,

which, crudely speaking, meant simply replacing the Pope with himself. Anne was part of that

process. Thomas Cromwell had done the legwork on it. But in that, there was a real antagonism because Cromwell was the protégé, the admirer of Cardinal Thomas Walsy.

Anne regarded Walsy as one of the problems, one of the obstacles to her becoming queen, rather unfairly. I mean, she began to

identify Woolsey as the enemy and was very much involved in his destruction. Cromwell, I think,

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