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The Ezra Klein Show

This Taught Me a Lot About How Decarbonization Is Really Going

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 7 July 2023

⏱️ 89 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The Inflation Reduction Act was the largest piece of climate legislation ever passed in the United States, setting aside hundreds of billions of dollars for decarbonizing the economy. But the money was always just a first step. The fate of the act’s goals hinges on whether those investments can build the energy system of the future — everything from transmission lines and wind farms to electric vehicle factories and green hydrogen hubs. It’s now been almost a year since the I.R.A.’s passage. So, how’s it going? Are we on track for a decarbonized economy? Robinson Meyer is a contributing writer to Times Opinion and the founding executive editor of Heatmap, a new publication covering the ins-and-outs of decarbonization in America. We discuss why estimates of the I.R.A.’s investments vary so drastically, whether the Biden administration is being too timid in how it gives out the money, the collision between the investments we need to decarbonize and the laws intended to protect the environment, why permitting has proved to be such a debilitating obstacle, why red states are projected to attract almost double the I.R.A. investments compared to blue states (and how that could pose a thorny political problem for the Biden administration), whether the country can decarbonize while competing with China and much more. Mentioned: “Pathways to Commercial Liftoff: Clean Hydrogen” by U.S. Department of Energy “The Greens’ Dilemma: Building Tomorrow’s Climate Infrastructure Today” by J. B. Ruhl and James E. Salzman Book Recommendations: The Ends of the World by Peter Brannen Climate Shock by Gernot Wagner and Martin L. Weitzman Shorting the Grid by Meredith Angwin Listen to this podcast in New York Times Audio, our new iOS app for news subscribers. Download now at nytimes.com/audioapp Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Sonia Herrero. The show’s production team includes Emefa Agawu, Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld, Rogé Karma and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

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0:00.0

From New York Times' opinion, this is the Ezra Klein Show.

0:06.0

Ooh, I'm excited about today's episode.

0:25.4

We're getting really into the Inflation Revection Act reads.

0:28.0

But before we begin, we're doing our quarterly Ask Me Anything.

0:31.0

This is going to be the last to ask me anything before I go on bookleaf.

0:34.0

I'll see, I guess, more about the bookleaf in a coming episode.

0:38.0

But if you've got questions, you'd like to hear answered on the show.

0:40.0

Send them to Ezra Klein Show at nytimes.com with AMA in the headlines.

0:45.0

So we know what they're about.

0:47.0

Again, send your questions with AMA in the headline to Ezra Klein Show at nytimes.com.

0:52.0

But today, we are getting into the Inflation Revection Act.

0:57.0

There's a meta point I want to make here.

0:59.0

I've covered a lot of policy fights and a huge problem in how policy coverage is done.

1:04.0

Ezra's all this attention to the fight to pass the bill.

1:08.0

Before it will care act, the Trump tax cuts, the Inflation Revection Act.

1:12.0

And then the bill passes, and if the fight stops, attention just drops off a cliff.

1:18.0

Implementation matters, but it's harder to cover because it's happening in all parts of the country.

1:25.0

Simultaneously, there isn't a huge Republican Democratic fight over it.

1:29.0

So there isn't the conflict, the draws the attention to it.

1:32.0

And so we sort of implicitly treat policy like it's this binary one zero condition.

1:37.0

One, you pass the bill and the thing is going to happen zero.

1:41.0

You didn't and it won't.

...

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