‘This is About the Future of Freedom’: What Does America Owe Ukrainians?

Matter of Opinion

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Ross Douthat, News, New York Times, Journalism

4.2 • 7.2K Ratings

🗓️ 15 February 2022

⏱️ 37 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

The U.S. State Department recently ordered all nonemergency diplomats and embassy employees to leave Ukraine, signaling that its personnel believe a Russian invasion of Ukraine may be imminent. Such a move by Russia would be the most consequential invasion in Europe since World War II. If Russia acts, what is America’s responsibility to Ukraine? Two of Jane’s Opinion colleagues, Bret Stephens and Farah Stockman, join her to tackle that question today. Both Bret and Farah have reported on foreign policy. Bret, a columnist for Times Opinion, told Jane: “I think Ukraine ought to be what Ukrainians want it to be. Vladimir Putin is unwilling to let Ukrainians decide their own future.” Farah, a member of the Times editorial board, sees wars as dirty pursuits that are often antithetical to democracy and freedom. Farah argues that America needs to focus on its own battles before engaging in international conflicts. “We need to do a better job picking our battles, we really do, because we have to protect ourselves and our own democracy first,” she says. “We cannot help anyone else if we’re in disarray. And guess what? We’re in disarray right now, we really are.”

Transcript

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0:00.0	Today on the argument, what's our responsibility to Ukraine?
0:10.6	I'm Jane Kostin, and this week I'm joined by two of my colleagues from Times' Opinion,
0:15.0	columnist Brett Stevens and editorial board member, Farah Stockman.
0:18.7	Brett and Farah both read about foreign policy, and they've spent time reporting in Europe
0:22.4	in the Middle East.
0:23.6	Their reporting has given them pretty starkly different ideas about when the US should
0:27.6	bang down towards to defend democracy and when it's better to butt out.
0:32.2	Which brings us to the topic of today's show, the crisis in Ukraine.
0:35.7	Tensions are mounting in Eastern Europe where more than 100,000 Russian troops are deployed
0:40.6	at Ukraine's border.
0:41.7	In response, Ukraine is carrying out its own drills.
0:45.0	Meanwhile, NATO forces are training in nearby Estonia.
0:47.9	Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby said yesterday he believes Russian President Vladimir Putin
0:52.6	has not made a final decision on whether or not to invade Ukraine.
0:56.4	Germany and the United States, together with our allies and partners, are working closely
1:01.0	together to pursue diplomatic resolutions in this situation.
1:04.0	Today, the eyes of the world are on the United States to see how we will respond.
1:09.7	Will we stand strong in support of Ukraine?
1:13.0	Or will we sit passively on the sidelines?
1:16.5	Brett, it's been a long time.
1:21.0	Hi, Jane.
1:22.0	Farah, it's a pleasure.
	...

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