Hey there, this is Trevor Grindle, one of the producers of the Aunder Center podcast, and welcome back.

This is part two of a conversation with Cole Arthur Riley, author of This Here Flesh, co-hosted by

Rachel Clinton Chen and Linda Royster from the Allender Center. If you miss the first part,

you can go to the previous episode entitled This Here Flesh with Cole Arthur Riley Part 1.

To hear Cole speak about the impact of her family of origin on her life.

We'll rejoin this conversation as Rachel asks Cole about the ways she has encountered God in the midst of encountering the trauma and the horrors of her own story.

Music midst of encountering the trauma and the horrors of her own story. Thank you for listening to the Allender Center podcast. I'm Dr. Dan Allender.

And I'm Rachel Clinton-Cenn. We're fiercely committed to providing hope and healing to a

fragmented world.

And restoration for the heart.

Thank you for joining us.

Let's get this conversation started.

Part of why I really am so excited that you and Linda are getting to have this conversation together is Linda is one of my favorite people in how she talks about Shalom.

And so when I saw your line very early on in Dignity about, you know, what is Shalom,

but dignity stretched out like a blanket over the cosmos.

I just thought. And then shortly after that, the sense of a God becoming a seamstress,

like on the day the world began to die, that sense of when really trauma and harm

and like severing and brokenness entered our reality that God became a seamstress.

And so I'm just so curious, what you, how have you encountered God in new ways through this

writing, which gets real close to, yeah, both that sense of horror and beauty?

It's probably because I'm going into these stories of my family and I needed that.

But yeah, I think that's why you see this kind of parental language a lot when I'm talking about

...