Hello, it's Manvine here. Today I'm handing the podcast over to the journalist Emily Sargent

for part 6 of her special investigation, looking into a fascinating and until now extremely

secretive practice that still takes place all over Britain. Conversion therapy. This is

thinking straight.

Last time on thinking straight, we are loud and proud about our inclusion because we think

that there's no point in being quietly inclusive. Once beliefs are so vital to one's identity,

even having no belief is also a belief and that should be given absolute protection.

The commitment is to follow Jesus who sacrificed his life and we all sacrifice aspects of our lives

and Christians. The government has promised that any conversion therapy ban will include gender

identity as well as sexuality. We are determined to ban conversion therapy. It's horrendous that

people are being tried to be, you know, diverted from what they actually are, whether it's being gay

or being trans. Research suggests that trans people are twice as likely to have been offered

some form of conversion therapy than any other group in the LGBTQ plus community.

You're listening to thinking straight from the times and the Sunday times. I'm Emily Sargent.

Today, conversion and transitioning, sorting fact from fiction.

In recent episodes, I took you with me to undercover conversion therapy sessions with a woman

named Carol, not her real name. It's a practice that's condemned by mental health and medical

professionals alike but it isn't actually illegal. A ban might seem like a straightforward next step

but the movement pushing for one has at times been fraught with disagreement and division

and some of that division comes down to the toxic discourse around trans lives in Britain.

Joe, go ahead. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning, Secretary of State. My question is about

conversion therapy. The audio you can hear is an LBC radio talk back caller asking the secretary of

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