Hello, it's Manvine here. Today I'm handing the podcast over to the journalist Emily Sargent

with part five of her special investigation. If you haven't heard the early ones, do

go back and have a listen. She's looking at a fascinating and, until now, extremely

secretive practice that still takes place all over Britain. Conversion therapy. This

is Thinking Strait. Last episode on Thinking Strait. But I know these are really deep

questions, but did you enjoy it sexually? I mean, did you get pleasure from it at all?

To try and tell you that who you are, your sexuality, your identity, your orientation,

that there's something broken and wrong with who you are. I think that is absolutely

criminal. We know from research that the vast majority of conversion therapy takes place

in a religious context. The Lord can separate you from this kind of a lifestyle. It's not

something that a person who's living in that kind of lifestyle has to go on in. That

was a direct result of the abuse that he'd suffered dressed up as a pastoral care.

But many religious leaders oppose a ban that would include, pray away the gay style therapy,

saying it would impact on religious freedom and freedom of speech. This is the banning

of people telling their story. This is the banning of prayer in certain circumstances.

You're listening to Thinking Strait from The Times and The Sunday Times. I'm Emily Sargent.

Today, faith, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

I mean, I've not been to church in a long time, but maybe I went, I think I went to a Christmas

service a couple of years ago with my partner and her family. This is Susie Ruffle. Stand

up comedian, podcast host, and also a close friend. I'm sitting on a fold-down chair with Susie

beside me. We're in a big room that looks like a lecture hall. There's a piano on the right

side of the stage. People are scattered around us, social distancing. The church is close

...