Hey friends, it's Kate. I just want to tell you some big news. I've got a new book coming out.

It's called Joyful Anyway. And it's going to be out in the world on April 7, 26. And it's available now for pre-order.

It's a book about what joy really is, not this glossy version we're sold, but the real surprising kind that can

coexist with our pain, our questions, and our beautiful ordinary lives.

So if you've ever wondered whether joy is still possible for you, even now, this book is my

wholehearted yes. You can pre-order it wherever books are sold,

and it really helps a lot when you do. Pre-order is this weird thing with authors, where it lets

everybody know that it's the book that they want on sale and on shelf spaces, and it's just

like a little voter confidence. So if you want to pre-order, it's all yours.

This is Everything Happens and I'm Kate Bowler.

So these days, the word Christian carries a lot of weight and not all of it is good. For many people, it's been

tangled up with power and exclusion and nationalism and just the kind of certainty that

leaves very little room for grace. And yet, there are still people of faith whose life

looks nothing like that. People whose beliefs

show up not as dominance or control or hyper certainty, but as love. Today's conversation is

with one of those people. Bishop Michael Curry is one of my spiritual heroes because he reminds

me that Christianity is at its heart,

not an argument to be one or an identity to be defended. It is the practice of love, a love

that is patient and persistent and often very sneaky. It's the kind of love that shows up in

trailer parks and food pantries and hospital

rooms and church basements. And that is the kind of love that doesn't need to ask who deserves

help, only who needs it. So this conversation was taped in front of a room of pastors, who are,

...