This is the waves. This is the waves. This is the waves. This is the waves.

Hello and welcome to the waves. Slates podcast about gender, feminism, and whose job it is to

yell objection in a courtroom. Every episode you get a pair of people talking about the thing we

can't get off our minds. And today you've got me, Christina Cotterucci. I'm a senior writer at

Slate and host of the Slate podcast outward. And me, Seth Stevenson. I'm another Slate senior writer

and I frequently cover courtroom trials. Seth, I've been reading your coverage of a big trial that's

been going on for the past two weeks. Sarah Palin and The New York Times have been battling in

court over one big question. Did the Times libel Palin in a 2017 editorial that piece in a kind

of throwaway line accused Palin of inciting Jared Lee Loffner to perpetrate the mass shooting that

killed six people and injured Gabby Giffords in Arizona in 2011. So Seth, I wanted to talk to you

obviously because you've been in the courtroom covering the trial for Slate. And I've been thinking

a lot about Sarah Palin in general lately how she's not really the main character in the news too

often anymore. But I'll say the residue of her 2008 vice presidential candidacy is everywhere in

politics. You know, it was a real turning point in the Republican party. And watching Palin face off

against the Times through your coverage has been a really good occasion for me to kind of take stock

of what she represents, but also who she is as a person and what's sort of at the root of her

appeal and her longevity in politics. But what made you want to be Slate's eyes and ears at the trial?

First of all, I'm just kind of fascinated by trials in general partly because they're these

entertaining theatrical plays that get put on. And if you have a seat in the courtroom as I often have

you're in the audience for the play and it's got drama and emotions and protagonists and antagonists

and the witnesses are like these supporting players who can be crazy characters from any walk of

life. But with a trial unlike a play at the end, there's a ruling and that ruling can really change

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