We're beginning to see a number of really successful Chinese companies, particularly in the Internet space, that are racing ahead of the rest of the world.

And I think this is causing tremendous unease and anxiety in Washington.

If you had to name the biggest breakup in recent history, which would it be? Sunny and Chair?

Brangelinea. Bill and Hillary. Well, they're sort of still together. Hello and welcome to the GZero

World podcast,

where you'll find extended versions of the interviews from my show on public television.

And today on the podcast, I'll examine why the decoupling I'm talking about is not only far bigger than any star-studded trist,

it's also the product of a long-distance relationship gone wrong.

Don't they always?

He's in Washington.

She's in Beijing.

And over time, it just became clear they wanted different things.

To help me lay out the stakes is a woman who says there's no going back. I speak with Sam Sachs, Cybersecurity and China Digital Economy Fellow at the New America Foundation.

Let's get to it.

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Visit FirstRepublic. Good to be with you.

Great to be back here, Ian.

So talk to me about the great decoupling. This is something that's not new in the sense.

I mean, the term has become unvogue recently.

But you say that to understand it, we have to look back at the last decade

...