they are in a sense January 6th Republicans. People who may have been staunch Republicans for a long time,

they may have voted for Trump twice, but now they have this deep feeling that he's crossed a line, that he's lost dead, that he is broken with them in a way that they can never accept again.

You may recognize that voice as Ben Wickler, chair of the Wisconsin Democratic Party and one of the country's best political organizers.

I called up Ben earlier this week so we could talk about a group of people who may decide the

election in Wisconsin and all across America,

Trump voters who no longer like Trump.

Of course, in a close election, there are many groups of voters who could decide the outcome.

And we'll be talking to a lot of them over the next few months.

Black voters, Hispanic voters, young voters, people who aren't even sure if they're

going to vote at all.

The anti-Trump coalition we're building has to include as many voters as possible,

whoever they are, wherever we can find them.

In 2020, a small percentage of people who voted for Trump in 2016 switched to Joe Biden.

And that made all the difference in a state like Wisconsin that was decided by about 20,000

votes.

In 2024, not only do we have to keep these voters, we also have an opportunity to pick up some two-time Trump voters who just don't think they can bring themselves to support him again, for all kinds of reasons.

There are different flavors of soft Republicans,

different types of folks.

They're often very different from most swing voters.

They're often high information voters.

There's a lot of military veterans and military families,

like people who put their lives on the line and wrap their whole family

...