The Therapy Wars: Science, Self-Help, and that IFS Article

Being Well with Forrest Hanson and Dr. Rick Hanson

Being Well

Health & Fitness, Education, Self-improvement, Mental Health

4.8 • 2.4K Ratings

🗓️ 15 December 2025

⏱️ 99 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Dr. Rick and Forrest explore one of the major topics in psychology today: the tension between "mainstream" and "alternative" approaches, and how to understand evidence-based care. Using the recent IFS controversy as a backdrop, they discuss what it means for an approach to be evidence-based, the real-world dangers of inflated claims, and therapy’s complex relationship with the medical model. They get into the weeds on study design, effect sizes, insurance, why different approaches may or may not have a large body of evidence, and how to think about the research on “common factors” in therapy. Dr. Rick and Forrest offer a simple framework for making good decisions amidst all of this complexity. Key Topics: 0:00: Introduction: the IFS article 7:27: Psychotherapy as medicine vs. personal growth practices 15:31: “Don’t know” mind versus “durrr who knows?” mind 19:50: What counts as evidence? 29:58: What does it mean for a therapy to be evidence-based? 42:38: How do we know therapy works? 53:45: Getting on your own team 59:07: Complexities with the medical model 1:10:24: How insurance and the healthcare system complicate the picture 1:18:27: Dr. Rick’s top two takeaways 1:29:05: Recap Support the Podcast: We're on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link. Sponsors Listen to Turning Points: Navigating Mental Health wherever you get your podcasts. Follow the show so you never miss an episode. Level up your bedding with Quince. Go to Quince.com/BEINGWELL for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty-five -day returns. If you are exploring whether you might be neurodivergent, check out Hyperfocus with Rae Jacobson. Skylight is offering our listeners $20 off their 10 inch Skylight Frame by going to myskylight.com/BEINGWELL. Go to Zocdoc.com/BEING to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/beingwell. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello and welcome to being well. I'm Forrest Hanson. If you're new to the show, you've chosen an interesting one to drop it to for your first episode. And if you've listened before, welcome back.
0:17.4	Today, we're doing an episode that I've been thinking about doing for a long time.
0:22.0	I create content at the intersection of psychology and personal development.
0:26.6	I like to share really well-researched, mostly scientific ideas about the mind that people can use to help themselves.
0:33.3	And on the show, we talk to both top academics and researchers, as well as both clinicians
0:38.3	and non-clinicians, who share approaches that they've developed based on their own experience,
0:44.5	often outside of that more traditional research-driven framework.
0:48.7	Most of the time, those two worlds play really nicely together.
0:53.1	But inside the field, there's actually a real tension between them, and this tension was
0:57.5	highlighted by a recent article published in New York Magazine titled The Truth About
1:02.1	IFS, The Therapy That Can Break You.
1:04.6	It included quotes from a few psychologists that raised questions about the safety and efficacy
1:10.2	of IFS, which had been used as part of
1:12.6	the treatment package at Castlewood Treatment Center, a St. Louis residential treatment facility
1:17.4	that focused on eating disorders. Castlewood closed in 2022, after allegations of inappropriate
1:23.4	conduct led to at least five former patients suing Castlewood. We are not going to focus
1:29.2	on the details of that story today. But whatever you think of the article itself and being transparent
1:34.0	with you, I had some mixed feelings about it. Two topics were raised in it that are very relevant
1:39.4	to what we talk about on the show. First, that tension between more mainstream or evidence-based approaches
1:45.5	to particularly psychotherapy as medicine, and then alternative approaches that I've already mentioned.
1:52.7	And then second, the perceived gap between the formal research evidence for IFS and its popularity.
2:00.0	This leads to an important question. How much and what kind
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