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From Wondery, I'm Tristan Donovan, and this is the Spy Who.

To trust or not to trust?

That's the question at the heart of many of the stories we tell on The Spy Who.

But few spies have motives as hard to decipher as those of Oleg Penkovsky.

As one of the executive producers, I and the writing team spent hours debating him and trying to divine his motives, and it's that mystery that makes Penkovsky one of the most fascinating

figures in the history of espionage.

Was he a brave hero, someone who paid the ultimate price to avert nuclear war?

An egotist chasing glory and afternoon tea with the queen?

A madman, hell-bent on world destruction?

Or possibly all of the above?

He is, after all, not a character any sensible novelist would invent.

He's messy, illogical, a glorious intense riddle of contradictions.

And we're not the only ones who've tried to unpack the mind of this legendary spy.

Ever since the CIA published the Penkovsky papers in 1965, him and his role in the Berlin

and Cuban Missile crises and in the wider events of the Cold War have been hotly contested.

So what can we learn from the events that took place during that time? Are the events still relevant today

and can we trust the history books to educate us on what to do

should the world face such threats once more? Here to help me unpack these pretty big questions

is Jack Basu Melish, International Relations PhD candidate at the London School of Economics and

Political Science and hosts of their Cold War podcast.

Hi Jack, thanks for joining us.

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