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Cato Podcast

The Shutdown That Solved Nothing

Cato Podcast

Cato Institute

Politics, Unknown, News Commentary, 424708, Libertarian, Markets, Cato, News, Immigration, Peace, Policy, Government, Defense

4.6949 Ratings

🗓️ 18 November 2025

⏱️ 32 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Romina Boccia, Michael F. Cannon, and Adam Michel break down the 43-day government shutdown driven by demands to extend temporary Obamacare subsidies for upper-income households earning well into six figures. The trio examines how the stalemate exposed deeper structural problems: runaway entitlement growth, perverse state incentives, a fragile food stamp and air-traffic control system, and a federal budget process unable to handle partisan deadlock.

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Transcript

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0:00.0

Welcome, everyone. I'm Adam Michelle, Director of Tax Policy Studies here at the Cato Institute, and today I'm joined by...

0:11.0

Michael Cannon, the Director of Health Policy Studies in Cato.

0:14.4

And Ruminah Botcha, the Director of Budget and Entitlement Policy.

0:17.8

For those of you whose lives were not affected by the partial slowdown of the federal

0:23.6

government for the past 43 days, the government shut down has officially ended.

0:28.8

On Wednesday night, President Trump signed a bill to reopen and fund the government

0:33.5

through January 30th.

0:35.4

The bill funds some programs for things like agriculture,

0:39.5

military construction, veterans, and legislative agencies for the rest of the fiscal year,

0:44.5

but the rest of the government is only funded through January 30th. The bill doesn't include

0:51.5

many of the Democrats' major policy demands on health care programs,

0:56.3

but they did receive some concessions on bringing back federal workers that Trump had laid off

1:01.2

during the shutdown and a promise for a future vote on the continuation of some of these

1:07.7

expanded pandemic Obamacare subsidies with the promise of a vote next month, most likely.

1:14.9

So today we're going to do a bit of post-mortem on the shutdown debate, address some of the bigger picture questions that it leaves us with.

1:22.5

Why shutdowns keep happening? Can we learn anything from these recurring manufactured crises? Are we doomed to repeat this every few years? But I want to start by digging into the central policy question that drove the shutdown, which is the government's role in health care. And starting with you, Michael, can you give us an overview of sort of why the shutdown was centered on these Obamacare subsidies, what they are and sort of where it leaves us?

1:51.9

Sure, but, you know, I always laugh when we talk about government shutdowns because it's not really a government shutdown.

1:57.4

I mean, yeah, my wife is not getting paid right now. But so many parts of the government

2:02.1

are humming along. And it wasn't until now that it occurred to me, the IRS was still humming

2:06.9

along. During this government shutdown, we were all still paying taxes, weren't we? Wouldn't it make

2:11.8

the shutdowns a lot shorter if it also cut off the government's ability to collect taxes from us during the

2:18.1

shutdown, I think that might never occur. It certainly would. And that part of the government.

...

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