Jesus welcomes flagrant but forgiven sinners, and that we're the kind of people he wants to be related to forever.

I mean, that's an incredible, that's a good word of grace for people like you and me.

Welcome to the Crossway Podcast, a show where we sit down with authors each week for

thoughtful interviews about the Bible, theology, church history, and the Christian life.

I'm Matt Tully, and today I'm talking with Nancy Guthrie.

Nancy teaches the Bible to women at our church, Cornerstone Presbyterian Church in Franklin, Tennessee,

and at conferences worldwide.

She's also the host of Help Me Teach the Bible, a podcast from the Gospel Coalition,

and the author of numerous books, including Saints and Scoundrels in the Story of Jesus, with Crossway.

Today, Nancy and I discuss some of the less well-loved characters of Scripture,

like tax collectors and scribes and Pharisees,

and even Judas Ascariot, Jesus's Betrayer.

She also highlights what we can learn from Jesus' scandalous family tree and why it's good

news for sinners like us. Let's get started.

Nancy, thank you so much for joining me on the Crossway podcast today.

Oh, happy to be with you.

We all know the Bible is one big story.

It stretches back thousands of years to the very beginning of history.

And because it's a story, it's got all of these lively characters in it that we're also familiar with.

And I think we spend a lot of attention, a lot of time focusing on the heroes of the story.

People who trusted God and saved the day, God used them in big ways.

But scripture also has a lot of scoundrels.

...