This is a Law and Crime Network presentation.

This podcast explores themes of child abuse and trauma.

Please listen with care.

She's very good at recognizing the loopholes in culture

and the disempowerment in the systems that she's a part of.

And she takes advantage of those things fully for her power.

And I think it was at this point where she started to receive training or guidance from Jody Hildebrand.

My first thought was, oh, this is a step in a direction that I didn't see this family going.

And the fact that she was laughing about it in the video and then thought it was okay to post online,

just kind of goes to show there was seriously something wrong with her psyche there.

And my kids are literally starving.

I hesitate to say this because it's going to sound like I'm like a mean barbarian,

but I told the kids, I said, I'm not even going to let you eat

breakfast until you get your chores done. There were obvious concerns, not just in the comment

section, but people that had real reason to believe there was potential abuse going on.

I'm Paula Barros, and this is the rise and fall of Ruby Frankie, presented by law and crime.

When we left off with the Frankies, Chad, Ruby's oldest son, had recently returned from the Wilderness Therapy Program on Asazi.

The 10 weeks he spent in the Arizona desert sparked controversy amongst eight passenger subscribers.

In Chad's absence, fans of the family vlog hashed out debates in the comment section, weighing the pros and cons of extreme intervention

for seemingly normal teenage rebellion. But followers' opinions fell on deaf ears. Ruby Frankie

may have put her parenting style on the internet for the whole world to see, but not up for debate.

What did you learn? Well, I learned about the three different types of pain,

...