From the historic campus of Hillsdale College in Hillsdale, Michigan,

where the good, the true, and the beautiful are taught, nurtured, and honored,

this is the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour, bringing the activity and education of the college to listeners across the country.

And so we got used to the idea that everything will always be peaceful and it's only bad people who start trouble.

But in fact, it's the human condition that we just have to live with it and that's how we deal with it that takes

the measure of us as men and women and as species. This is your host Scott Bertram. Welcome to the

Radio Free Hillsdale Hour, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. That was Michael Walsh,

author of A Rage to Conquer, 12 Battles That

Change the Course of Western History. We'll hear more from Michael later on in today's program.

First, we're joined by Dr. Bradley Watson. He is Associate Professor of Government at the Van

Andal Graduate School of Government at Hillsdale in D.C. Dr. Watson, thanks for joining us.

Thanks very much for having me, Scott.

Appreciate your time. You were on our main campus in Michigan earlier this academic year,

giving a presentation on progressive jurisprudence and the crisis of constitutionalism.

And that's what our conversation will center on today.

Let's begin by defining our term. How would you define progressive jurisprudence, especially in contrast to say a more traditional or originalist interpretation?

Yes, it's a good question. When the progressives came on the scene in the early part of the 20th century, they were actually very suspicious of the courts.

They saw them as conservatizing institutions, an institution that stood in the way of progressive change.

But as we move toward the middle part of the 20th century and the composition of the courts,

especially the Supreme Court changed in the New Deal and post-New Deal era, we see courts

becoming much more sympathetic to progressive purposes. And progressive jurisprudence itself becomes a

kind of intellectual framework by which progressive policies can be either allowed or, in fact, required.

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