There's now questioning of the social justice movement, even on the center, center-left elites.

Donald Trump rescinded an executive order of President Lyndon Johnson.

That's 60 years ago.

Things which were largely unquestioned and unchallenged for 50, 60 years from the early days of the progressive moment.

There's the line that's been drawn. Yeah.

And things are not going to be the same from now on. Hello, I'm Fraser Myers, deputy editor of Spike.

Absolutely delighted to be joined by Eric Kaufman. Fraser is great to be here. Eric, we're speaking at the heterodox social science conference, a conference you

organized. Can you tell us a bit about why you organized it and also give us a bit of a

flavor of what kind of discussions have been happening? Yeah, why did I organize this? Well, okay,

I have attended gatherings of large number of heterodox scholars, so the Stanford Academic

Freedom Conference, which had some overlap with it.

But my aim here is actually to be quite purposeful in that there is a sort of research agenda

here, not just we're going to gripe about how we've been canceled and how awful it is.

But that's part of it.

But part of it is to say, okay, we have a social science

in which many questions have never been asked or certain viewpoints are not allowed. So

explaining racial inequality by anything other than systemic racism is essentially more or less

taboo when actually probably the real drivers are not that. So we actually should, if we were

kind of a head of properly functioning social science, we should have most of the work on the

actual drivers and maybe only a little work on systemic racism, say. So one strand of this research

agenda is just to say, we got to fill in all these blanks to prevent this warped knowledge that's being created. The second, however, is really about this outpouring of books

on critical social justice or woke or whatever we want to call it. I think woke is the most

...