The problem with running the government like a business
Make Me Smart
Marketplace
4.6 • 5.4K Ratings
🗓️ 1 April 2025
⏱️ 36 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
The idea that the government should be run more like a business isn’t new. But with two businessmen, Donald Trump and Elon Musk, now taking a proverbial chainsaw to the federal bureaucracy all in the name “efficiency,” this theory is being put to the test. While it’s an appealing idea, Philip Joyce, professor of public policy at the University of Maryland School of Public Policy, said governments can’t afford to take risks the way businesses can. On the show today, Joyce explains the origins of the idea that the government should be run like a business, how we define “success” differently for the two entities, and how the way Trump and Musk do business is showing up in the White House.
Then, we’ll break down the high stakes of today’s special elections in Wisconsin and Florida. Plus, reflections on serendipitous moments in walkable communities and what we gain by admitting we were wrong.
Here’s everything we talked about today:
- “Why Running the Government Like a Business Would Be a Disaster” from The New York Times
- “The US Government Is Not a Startup” from Wired
- “The US Postal Service has been struggling for years. Now Trump’s talking about privatizing it” from AP News
- “DOGE wants businesses to run government services ‘as much as possible’” from The Washington Post
- “UPDATE: RECOVER Long COVID pathobiology grants restored” from The Sick Times
- “NIH restores some long COVID grants” from C&EN
- “What to Watch in Wisconsin’s Supreme Court Election and Florida’s Special Elections” from The New York Times
- “What to watch for Tuesday in Wisconsin’s high-stakes Supreme Court race and special elections in Florida” from CNN Politics
- “Control of the Wisconsin Supreme Court is at stake in race that’s drawn powerful political interests” from AP News
- “Volume 52 | Issue 1 | February 2025” from the American Ethnological Society
Got a question or comment for the hosts? Email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 508-U-B-SMART.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hey everybody, welcome back to Make Me Smart, where none of us is as smart as all of us. |
| 0:12.2 | I'm Samantha Fields here with Kimberly and for Kai Risdahl. |
| 0:15.6 | Thank you all for joining us on this Tuesday, April 1st. |
| 0:18.2 | It's great to be here for this week's deep dive. |
| 0:22.8 | Yes, and for the deep dive, |
| 0:28.3 | this week we're going to dig into what's been kind of a longstanding idea. You often hear it popping up in various conversations that the federal government should be run more like a business, |
| 0:34.3 | because lots of people believe that companies do a better job than the government |
| 0:38.2 | at saving money or meeting people's needs. And now we're sort of seeing this play out in real |
| 0:43.7 | time with President Trump and Elon Musk to businessmen of varying success, leading the charge |
| 0:50.5 | to reshape the government and scale back agencies all in the name of what they're |
| 0:55.1 | saying is efficiency. |
| 0:57.3 | So we want to know more today about where this idea comes from, why it seems to have such |
| 1:02.0 | appeal, and also some of the fundamental differences between how governments and businesses |
| 1:06.4 | operate. |
| 1:07.8 | Philip Joyce is here to make us smart about this. |
| 1:10.1 | He's a professor of public policy at the University of Maryland School of Public Policy. Philip, is here to make us smart about this. He's a professor of public policy |
| 1:11.5 | at the University of Maryland School of Public Policy. Philip, welcome to the show. Thanks for being |
| 1:15.6 | with us. Thanks so much for having me. So I just want to start with this idea of sort of where |
| 1:21.8 | this whole idea came from, how long it's been around, and sort of why people seem to gravitate |
| 1:27.4 | toward this notion that |
| 1:28.4 | the government would be better run if it was run like a business. |
| 1:32.9 | Well, it turns out that it's been around for a long time. I think we can take it all the way |
... |
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