Welcome back to the home of the oxymoron. Evil genius. He asked the newspaper to print his obituary early so he'd enjoy it. That's like hiding at your own funeral. Yeah, a big, great gig. I'm Russell Kane. Join me to weigh in on whether the biggest players in history are more evil or genius. Becoming that rich, I'd say that is some level of genius. It also helps that it's a long time ago, right?

It's like the podcast version of telling your kids the ice cream van plays music when it's out of ice cream.

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John, thanks very much indeed. On tonight's programme, I am not interested in how people move, only what moves them, said the late and great choreographer Pina Bouch.

And it's in that spirit I'll be talking with Chauvinne Davis, one of Britain's best choreographers, about how we can understand the power of bodily movements and gestures. As she and other artists take part in a 30-day festival of artists and audiences at the Barbican in London. Plus, public affairs, public opinion, the public realm, public space, the public sector.

The word public is on our lips daily, but what does it actually mean now?

Later we'll look at the idea of the public historically and what it might mean now in an increasingly privatised world.

But first, the Barbican Festival, which is described in good old 60s fashion as a

happening. One strand involves the choreographers, Chauvin Davis, five dancers and an artist

exploring the power of the body in motion, not only physically, but emotionally. Soon, I'll bring

some of the collaborators together, but I want to begin by talking with

Chivonne Davis. Shivon, I got off a plane today and I was behind somebody carrying a big

double bass on their back. And I thought, of course, that dancers and choreographers are

different because they inhabit their instrument. Is that a blessing or is it a curse?

It's both, but I think the longer I danced, the more complicated it became, because I began,

I began as such an innocent. I just went to a dance class and I started.

And there was one moment as I was working with Viola Farber,

an extraordinary dancer with Merce Cunningham.

And there's a thing you do in dance class

where you go from the right to the left

...