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The Politics of Pleasure w/ Eric Wycoff Rogers and Zarinah Agnew

Upstream

Upstream

Politics, Society & Culture, News

4.91.8K Ratings

🗓️ 24 September 2024

⏱️ 87 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Capitalism’s addiction to growth doesn’t just show up in the external world. It can also be found inside us—in our manufactured desire for more and better. Not only do we have to keep wanting to keep the machine going, we have to keep wanting what is “scarce” and easily privatizable or commodifiable so that the capitalist class can continue to profit.

Critical hedonism(s) is an approach to pleasure and care that is critical of capitalism. It is a politics of pleasure that invites us to remake our desires to be less antisocial, competitive, and harmful, and to instead be more prosocial, collaborative and mutually beneficial.

The idea of critical hedonism(s) has been deeply studied and explored by our guests in today’s episode. Zarinah Agnew is a trained neuroscientist formerly at University College London, and then UCSF, a self-described guerrilla scientist, and part of the Beyond Return organization. Eric Wycoff Rogers is a historian, writer, community organizer, and designer currently based in London. Eric runs a thirdspace project in London, convenes a discussion series on the politics of pleasure, and is the author of the Critical Hedonist Manifesto.

This is Eric and Zarinah’s second time on the podcast, they joined us in 2022 to talk about Fully Automated Luxury Communism, which is a great compliment to this episode. This is also a great episode following our most recent conversation with Jason Hickel, Better Lives for All. Where that conversation focused on human needs, this one takes up the topic of human wants.

In this conversation, we explore what capitalism tells us to desire and why, we interrogate what is truly “cheap,” “expensive,” and “valuable,” and explore what it would be like to participate in a politics of pleasure based on critical hedonism(s)—creating conditions and opportunities for distributed pleasure that don’t cause harm to people or the planet. Finally, we are invited to learn about community gatherings and how to do the work of reclaiming and remaking pleasure.

Further Resources:

Related Episodes:

Intermission music: Night Cafe Radio

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Transcript

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0:00.0

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, We need a politics that addresses pleasure and desire, especially if we are living in developed countries,

0:26.0

one of the main ways that we're exploited and extracted from and held back from our own well-being is actually through our own desires.

0:32.0

I think we're all sort of familiar with the

0:33.9

feeling that we may be as strongly desiring something but as soon as we achieve that

0:38.8

thing the goalpost move and we need something else. We really want this apartment, we get the apartment

0:44.0

and suddenly need an apartment with a garden. Oh you really want this job or you get the job and suddenly you

0:48.5

need a promotion and so there's this sort of constant chasing of the dragon and worse than that oftentimes the things

0:54.4

that we actually want are bad for us and preclude us from findings of the satisfaction and peace.

1:00.0

Bad for us, bad for others, bad for the environment, and we're all competing with each other for this

1:04.8

sort of arbitrarily scarce things.

1:06.9

You are listening to Upstream.

1:08.9

Upstream.

1:10.9

Upstream.

1:11.9

A podcast of documentaries and conversations that invites you to unlearn everything you thought

1:17.2

you knew about economics.

1:19.5

I'm Robert Raymond.

1:20.8

And I'm Dela Duncan. Capitalism's addiction to growth doesn't just show up in the external world.

1:26.0

It can also be found inside us.

1:30.0

Not only do we have to keep wanting to keep the machine going,

1:34.4

we have to keep wanting what is, quote, scarce and easily privatizable and commodifiable

1:41.1

so that the capitalist class can continue to profit.

1:46.0

Critical Hedonisms is an approach to pleasure and care that is critical of capitalism.

...

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