The new era of warfare
Marketplace All-in-One
Marketplace
4.5 • 1.4K Ratings
🗓️ 26 June 2025
⏱️ 20 minutes
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Summary
The ceasefire between Israel and Iran appears to be holding for now. But as this conflict has played out, along with other ongoing wars around the world, it got us thinking: What does war even look like in 2025? In Ukraine, it looks like drone and missile attacks side-by-side with everyday life. On the show today, longtime international correspondent Deborah Amos joins us from Kyiv, Ukraine to talk about how modern warfare has changed.
Here’s everything we talked about today:
- "Bank hacks, internet shutdowns and crypto heists: Here’s how the war between Israel and Iran is playing out in cyberspace" from Politico
- "Combat drones: We are in a new era of warfare - here's why" from BBC News
- "FPV drones in Ukraine are changing modern warfare" from Atlantic Council
- "Cyber Operations during the Russo-Ukrainian War" from the Center for Strategic and International Studies
- “‘Will Trump give up the store?’ Edward Fishman on how US economic warfare works – and doesn’t" from The Guardian
Got a question for the hosts? Email makemesmart@marketplace.org or leave us a voicemail at 508-U-B-SMART.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello everyone, I'm Kimberly Adams. Welcome back to Make Me Smart, where none of us is as smart as all of us. |
| 0:12.9 | And I'm Rie Maeh Makhres. Today is Thursday, June 26. The ceasefire between Israel and Iran appears to be holding for now. |
| 0:21.6 | But as this conflict has unfolded, it got us thinking, what does war even look like in 2025? |
| 0:29.5 | Yeah, there are so many things different about just the way that war is wage. |
| 0:35.0 | And so today we are talking to somebody who has seen this in action. Deborah Amos |
| 0:40.2 | has covered foreign conflicts for decades. Most folks will know her from her years as a foreign correspondent |
| 0:45.5 | at NPR. And she's currently the Ferris Professor of Journalism in Residence at Princeton University. |
| 0:52.0 | She's joining us from Ukraine, where she's on a reporting trip with the International Women's Media Foundation. |
| 0:58.1 | Welcome to the show, Deb. |
| 0:59.7 | Glad to be here. |
| 1:01.6 | Well, first of all, thank you for joining us from an active conflict zone. |
| 1:05.6 | Yes, thank you. |
| 1:06.5 | Where are you exactly? And tell us a bit about what you're doing there. |
| 1:10.4 | So I am in Kiev. I'm in the capital of Ukraine. We spent a couple of days in Leviv right near the Polish border and now we're here. |
| 1:20.0 | We're right in the middle of town, which is important and I'll get to that. But what this is, it's a reporting grant. And I applied for it because I wanted to come here. |
| 1:29.2 | I wanted to see this one up close, and the International Women's Media Foundation picked me, |
| 1:35.6 | and also Joanne Levine, who's come as a producer and a partner in this caper, and we're |
| 1:41.8 | looking at this war up close, and it is remarkable to be here. |
| 1:49.5 | Well, you've reported from conflict zones in the past, specifically in the Middle East. |
| 1:53.5 | I'm very familiar with your work. I'm sure many of our listeners are, too. I'm curious, |
| 1:58.3 | what feels different about being on the ground in Ukraine today compared to |
| 2:02.6 | your past experiences and conflict zones? So let me start right from the beginning. One of the |
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