There's a lot in the news these days and sometimes the headlines just aren't enough.

Every Sunday on Up First we bring you an in-depth exploration behind a major story.

We dive deeper into the details and why you should care.

Listen now to the Sunday story from NPR's Up First Podcast.

This is Fresh Air, I'm Terry Gross.

The U.S. military has been testing new weapons with remarkable capabilities using cutting-edge

digital technology, including artificial intelligence.

But the process has been held up by tradition, politics, lobbyists, the procurement, bureaucracy,

disagreements within the military, and profound ethical questions surrounding the use of autonomous

deadly weapon systems.

Meanwhile, the limitations of the military's current weapon systems are being tested by

the war in Ukraine, the current conflict with Iran over access to the Strait of Hormuz,

and the preparations for a possible armed conflict with China.

My guest Eric Lipton has been investigating the military's struggles to modernize and

the obstacles that have been standing in the way.

Lipton is an investigative reporter for The New York Times.

His first beat at the Times was covering Rudy Giuliani when he was mayor of New York,

then Lipton transitioned to covering the 9-11 attacks and their aftermath.

We recorded our interview yesterday.

Eric Lipton, welcome back to Fresh Air.

Let's start with the new weapons that you've reported on that the Navy is testing.

Let's start there.

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