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And then, quite frankly, again, I don't disagree with Jim,

that Ormick Hensey, that Obama hasn't sort of abandoned the international role.

But let me, he has done very little as a political leader

to explain to Americans why they do need to be engaged.

In fact, you know, his most memorable statements are,

we need to be nation-building at home, not nation-building abroad,

as if that's a binary choice.

And I think he has, you know, some presidents go in the direction

that the public is already going and encourage it.

And some presidents try to push back against it and try to say,

no, no, no, no, no, you're, you're heading too far in that direction.

I think the next president is likely to try to make the case

to the American people again that they need to,

that they need to understand how important this is.

There's no substitute for presidential leadership in these situations.

That's who can get the e, that's the only person who can sometimes block

...