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New Discourses

The Iterated Motte and Bailey Strategy

New Discourses

New Discourses

Education

4.82.4K Ratings

🗓️ 10 November 2025

⏱️ 20 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

New Discourses Bullets, Ep. 133 Over the last few years, much has been said about the "motte and bailey" rhetorical strategy, which is a dishonest way in which postmodernist, Woke, and other manipulative people argue. First described by Nicholas Shackel in a 2005 paper, "On the Vacuity of Postmodern Methodology," it has become a standard explanation for the Woke era in the last few years. In Counter Wokecraft (https://www.amazon.com/Counter-Wokecraft-Manual-Combatting-University/dp/B09LH2L3B6/ref=sr_1_1), James Lindsay and Charles Pincourt outline both offensive and defensive uses of this crooked strategy, which is a kind of "strategic equivocation" used to steal power. In this episode of New Discourses Bullets, host James Lindsay explains how the "motte and bailey" strategy can be iterated through a series of players to give legitimacy to truly radical ideas and programs while the actors involved keep their own hands mostly clean. Join him to understand an important dynamic. Latest from New Discourses Press! The Queering of the American Child: https://queeringbook.com/ Support New Discourses: https://newdiscourses.com/support Follow New Discourses on other platforms: https://newdiscourses.com/subscribe Follow James Lindsay: https://linktr.ee/conceptualjames © 2025 New Discourses. All rights reserved. #NewDiscourses #JamesLindsay #MotteandBailey

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hey everybody. This is James Lindsay. You're listening to New Discourse's Bullets, where I give a short bullet point like summary of a single topic relevant to woke that we need to understand so we can beat it.

0:26.0

And today I want to talk about this concept of the Mott and Bailey, which I think I've covered before. Maybe I didn't do a bullet about the Mott and Bailey, but we'll let this be the

0:29.4

introduction. But I actually want to talk about a different variation on the Mott and Bailey

0:34.4

that I'm going to call the Nested or Iterated Mott and Bailey strategy I'm going to call the nested or iterated Mott and Bailey strategy.

0:39.8

And it requires kind of multiple people, not necessarily coordinated, but maybe coordinating

0:44.8

together in order to pull it off.

0:46.5

And let me reiterate, not necessarily coordinated.

0:50.7

I got this idea just for full credit from the very insightful, very intelligent guy who goes by Entropyrian on X.

1:01.9

You should look him up and follow him.

1:04.2

This is a brilliant way to understand something.

1:07.5

But let me briefly explain the Mott and Bailey rhetorical strategy. A lot of people

1:11.8

mistakenly call it a fallacy. It is not a fallacy. It is a strategy. The technical way of

1:18.0

describing that strategy would be called strategic equivocation. So when you equivocate, what you do

1:24.7

is you bounce back and forth between two understandings of something,

1:28.3

and to do so strategically would be strategic equivocation, or what's called the Mott and Bailey

1:33.5

rhetorical strategy. The Mott and Bailey Rhetorical Strategy is identified with postmodern activism,

1:41.2

linguistic games played by postmodernists who are not interested in truth, but think

1:46.0

that all dialogue is an assertion of or combat for power. This technique, the Mott and Bailey,

1:53.6

was named by a philosopher at Oxford, who is really pretty interesting, named Nicholas Shackle.

2:03.9

He explained it for the first time in 2005 in a paper titled, If I Remember Right, on the vacuity, meaning the emptiness, the vacuity

2:11.2

of postmodern methodology. So he saw this as a postmodernist methodology that is actually empty of real content.

2:21.5

It is a malicious or strategic language game being played in order to steal power from people.

...

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