The Israeli Right’s Plan to Carve Up Gaza

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 28 October 2025

⏱️ 68 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Israeli forces still occupy half of Gaza. In the cease-fire deal, Israel agreed to fully withdraw its presence there once Hamas fully demilitarized. But Amit Segal thinks that’s unlikely to happen anytime soon. Instead, he believes Gaza will end up divided. So what does that really mean? What are the implications? Segal is the chief political analyst for Channel 12 News in Israel and is known to be quite close to the Netanyahu government. He writes the newsletter It’s Noon in Israel and is the author of the book “A Call at 4 a.m.: Thirteen Prime Ministers and the Crucial Decisions That Shaped Israeli Politics,” which was recently published in English. In this conversation, he talks about why most Israelis don’t see the cease-fire as the end of the war between Israel and Hamas and how this conflict is mapping onto Israeli politics — both at present and as the country looks toward its next elections. This episode contains strong language. Book Recommendations: The Accidental President by A. J. Baime An Unfinished Love Story by Doris Kearns Goodwin Messiah in Sde Boker by Hagai Segal Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker and Aman Sahota. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Transcript editing by Naomi Noury.

Transcript

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0:00.0	The
0:07.0	The We're a few weeks into the ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas.
0:35.5	It's a deal that has already been troubled by violence, but so far
0:39.3	it is holding. If you're listening to that deal being talked about in the U.S., you're hearing it
0:44.0	spoken about one way. So this long and difficult war has now ended. Some people say 3,000 years,
0:51.1	some people say 500 years, whatever it is. it's the granddaddy of them all.
0:57.7	But when I read the Israeli press, I'm hearing and seeing something very different.
1:03.4	In America, the dominant position on the Israeli-Palestin conflict is still a belief, a hope, in the two-state solution.
1:10.5	And Israel is just not.
1:12.3	Israeli politics is well to the right of where America admits it is, where America even, I think,
1:18.3	often realizes it is. One of my intentions in the way we have covered this conflict since October
1:23.8	7th is to not present either in Israel or a Palestinian politics that is different
1:30.6	from the one that actually exists. And so I wanted to talk to someone about this deal who represented
1:36.1	more the way the Israeli government and the forms of politics that are in power in Israel see it.
1:42.9	Amit Segal is the chief political analyst for Channel 12 in Israel.
1:46.0	He is a political columnist there.
1:48.0	He is the author of the newsletter, It's Noon in Israel,
1:52.0	and of a new book recently published in English,
1:54.0	A Call at 4 a.m., 13 prime ministers and the crucial decisions
1:59.0	that shaped Israeli politics.
2:01.9	He's known to be quite close to the Netanyahu government,
2:05.1	and I think speaks with strong sourcing among both them and quite a bit of their opposition.
	...

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