Well, this is a total catastrophe, but how much of a catastrophe? What the hell is actually going on?

I think this is quite an interesting question to navigate, which is, what the hell are they doing this for?

Might seem like a basic, obvious question, but one that is still actually worth interrogating.

And what's going on with Western leaders? What's going on with the, you know, the fragmenting West already, the kind of

cohesion of the West falling apart. But the likes of Keir Stama, who's set himself up as a poodle to Trump,

to be honest. Others are taking different stances. What's that all about? Well, I'm really delighted

to be talking to Dave Wearing, who is assistant professor in international relations at the University of Sussex and a Middle East specialist, written extensively on the likes of the

Saudi regime and so on. Great to chat to you. How you doing? I'm doing well, mate. How are you?

Well, given the world's gone to shit. Yeah. Yeah. Not ideal. Yeah. It's just, you just kind of look back at, you know, 10, 12, 15 years ago. I don't want to go all, you know, this is not a bit liberal. They were like, oh, this is a wastes of calm and stability. And then it will, but it is a bit, isn't it? Like, you get your phone out, you get a notification. You're like in the brace position position and we thought it was bad 20 years ago

just after the financial crash we thought that was bad

for earlier austerity this is something else

it was just everything's just smote without control

okay let's just start I want to hear you just I want to hear a big

big Dave wearing take on what the hell is going on here.

What, what, why did they do this?

Let's ask basic, you know, questions.

Why the hell have they done this?

What are they trying to get out of it?

And, you know, what's the method in what looks to a lot of people like,

absolute madness?

Yeah, there's the method in what looks to a lot of people like, absolute madness? Yeah, there's minimal method here.

I think that's the big takeaway.

...