Welcome along to The Ruck, the journalist's rugby podcast from The Times and the Sunday Times.

You can hear some clanging and banging in the background.

It's Alfie Reynolds here, Will Keller her alongside me, because Will, we have just been at a

World Rugby Rugby World Cup ticketing information event.

We've been chatting to Michael Hooper, Alan Gilpin, the CEO.

You've just been chatting to Brett Robinson as well, so it's kind of all happening. Yeah, and is this the most picturesque ruck we've ever done? 100%. Do you want to set the scene for everyone? So we're standing on the top of the Contemporary Art Museum over Circular Key. We're looking out of the boats, ferrying people off to different parts of Sydney, and we can see the Opera House to our right, and we can see Sydney Harbour Bridge to our left and in between the two is one of the great Australian

rugby writers. Christy Doran from Raw. Yeah the real star attraction. Yeah the landmark. Yeah the Opera House

and a little old journey. Good to join you boys. Yeah, thanks for joining us, Christy. We appreciate your time

because we know you're busy. We know there's been a lot of fallout to the weekend, but we wanted an Aussie perspective on, I guess, the Lions Tour, the second test, where the wallabies currently find themselves in this series. The Incident. There's a lot to get into. Do you want to start with The Incident? Yeah, shall we? What should we do? I mean, what's your take?

There's been a few hasn't there. I started with Morgan Terranui on Saturday evening. Look, I think it's somewhere in the middle. And this game, everyone's going to say it. So boring, Christy. God's sake. It's played in grey, isn't it? I personally think it was a penalty. I think Jack Morgan, I think, goes off his feet initially

and I think he's beaten I think, goes off his feet

initially and I think he's beaten to the rack there by Carlo Dazzano. So I've got to say,

though, I initially thought this is going to test World Rugby's metal here because two guys

centimeters off the ground, you know, how much lower can they get? Is their actual direct head

contact? I don't think so.

When I thought, there's no penalty, play on. And then I watched it again and again, I actually thought, oh, I do think it is a penalty. Is there a problem here? We talked a fair bit about it on Saturday night after the game, but is there a problem here with rugby that we're now on Tuesday afternoon and we still can't work out whether that was the right call or not.

And well rugby are never going to tell anyone.

They're doing a review at the moment we've heard today. we're now on Tuesday afternoon and we still can't work out whether that was the right call or not.

And World Rugby are never going to tell anyone.

They're doing a review at the moment we've heard today and they've been pretty clear that they want to protect their referees and we talked about it on Saturday night. Alfie that Joe Schmidt's comments were a bit over the top. I thought about the referees aren't protecting player welfare,

which you can disagree with the decision,

but that was a bit strong.

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