This is Deborah Roberts. I'm here with another weekly episode of our latest series from 2020 and ABC Audio,

The Hand in the Window. Remember, you can get new episodes early if you follow The Hand in the Window for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or your favorite podcast app.

Now, here's the episode.

The Free Birth Society made millions

selling a simple message to pregnant women.

You don't need ultrasounds, doctors or midwives.

You can free birth.

But behind the scenes, terrible things were happening.

I feel ashamed about this, but I didn't think that the deaths were bad until a year after I left.

Subscribe to The Guardian Investigates Feed to get all the episodes of The Birthkeepers. Listen now on Spotify.

To Kim Major, there is nothing more normal than a Friday night football game.

That's true now, and it was true back in September 2016.

On Friday night, my husband coaches football.

He coached the football game. I actually took my younger

kids to the football game. Major has three kids. At the time, her two youngest were under eight years old.

Even they knew something was going on at their mom's job. They noticed her working long hours, coming home after their bedtime.

They even saw her on the news. Major had spent three days interviewing Sean Great, hearing his

horrific confessions. The weight of it all was seeping into her home life.

Major sensed that her family needed a night that felt normal.

I sat there, which was also surreal, seeing all the things around me and the lights and the...

People are happy.

They're happy, the crack in the helmets, the band, watching my husband, hearing the whistles.

...