I think Roxy got into some trouble.

I know the cram was really afraid of my, I had, I had heard that Gacy had grabbed David

cram one night and got him into the handcuffs and but cram was able to drop kick Gacy in

the groin and got the hell out of there, went to a police station and had the cops taken

off and then he actually showed up for work the next day.

How true that is, I don't know.

All I know is if somebody put me in handcuffs, tried to do what Gacy tried to do, I wouldn't

be working for him anymore, you know.

I wouldn't just be having the cops take the handcuffs off, I'd be having them go back

to the house to arrest the SOB.

So I don't know how much truth was in there but I know towards the end of our investigation

the cram was, was afraid of him and I think Roxy was too.

The leverage that we had, I'm told with Roxy, was that Roxy and Gacy were having an

affair, this is why Roxy would make him more money than the other ones were because Gacy

was doing Roxy and the leverage that we as a police department had was we knew about

it but his wife didn't and he was cooperating with us so that we wouldn't tell his wife

about what him and Gacy were doing together, which I believe she eventually found out.

Now whether they stayed together after that or not, I have no idea.

I don't think they were involved in the actual murders, they were digging the trenches

in the crawl space and it's kind of hard to believe that they wouldn't think what's

going on here because I mean you're digging these trenches and then you don't see any

other work going on.

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