Well what's up my friends this is the Jason Stapleton program the entrepreneurial podcast that breaks down the skills you need to start and grow a business that creates more wealth and freedom for you that sounds like your jam let's get started

Well what's up everybody welcome back I have guests today unlike most days

Eddie Yoon and Christopher Lockhead are authors of multiple best-selling books including Play Bigger, Snow Leopard and their most recent book the 22 Laws of Category Design

and I put links to all that stuff in the description if you want to go check it out as long as along with their website category pirates

but guys I tell you I couldn't be more excited to have these guys on the show with me today because they have they're not only helped really improve me improve my business and have had an impact on my business

but they more importantly is they have completely redefined and transformed the way that I think about marketing and that's why I wanted to get them on and have them talk to you because the you know the depth and breadth of their knowledge and skill like this is

is I mean I consider it to be unmatched basically from anything else that I've seen in the market right now so it can be an interesting conversation

guys welcome to the show I appreciate y'all being here thanks Jason for having us

yeah so I want to just for a minute I got to I want to geek out on you guys I don't normally do this normally it's my wife we lived in it's funny

because we lived in Los Angeles for a number of years and my wife just loves delist celebrities every single one that's you know waiting tables in West Hollywood we got to stop and take pictures

and that's just it's kind of never been my thing but I'll say you guys talk about like super consumers of your stuff and if there's I found out about you guys I want to say six months ago

since then I've consumed everything that you guys have written listen to a bunch of podcasts that you guys have done

and I I'm trying to think about why that was and it's it's funny because I can there was nothing you can equate it to

so when I think about it I say if you ever come into contact with something an idea or or a frame that kind of shattered everything that you thought you understood about

about marketing about branding and so much so that you really don't even you can't wrap your head around it in the beginning but you know instinctively

like intuitively that this is the way like that you've misunderstood it and that now that kind of last piece slides into the puzzle

I feel like that's what category design is and so I want to let's just start off with a simple question

can you guys explain what is category design and how is it kind of uniquely different than branding or even I would even say niching down if you guys can do that

Eddie I'll go to you for sure sure so I've done business strategy growth strategy work for 20 plus years for the largest companies

and the simplest way that I look at it is that category design sits above every other strategy out there

and in the same way I think Christopher always uses this example of the way humans function is categories first like we can't do anything in life

without putting it into a bucket if I run into somebody you're a stranger I'm going to ignore you or move on my way

...