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The John Batchelor Show

THE EVER VIGILANT BIRDS OF NEW ENGLAND AND NEW SOUTH WALES ALWAYS HAVE A PLAN. 7/8 Ten Birds That Changed the World Hardcover – by Stephen Moss (Author)

The John Batchelor Show

John Batchelor

News, Arts, Books, Society & Culture

4.52.8K Ratings

🗓️ 29 June 2025

⏱️ 11 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

THE EVER VIGILANT BIRDS OF NEW ENGLAND AND NEW SOUTH WALES ALWAYS HAVE A PLAN.  7/8 Ten Birds That Changed the World Hardcover – by  Stephen Moss  (Author)
https://www.amazon.com/Ten-Birds-That-Changed-World/dp/1541604466

For the whole of human history, we have lived alongside birds. We have hunted and domesticated them for food; venerated them in our mythologies, religions, and rituals; exploited them for their natural resources; and been inspired by them for our music, art, and poetry.

In Ten Birds That Changed the World, naturalist and author Stephen Moss tells the gripping story of this long and intimate relationship through key species from all seven of the world’s continents. From Odin’s faithful raven companions to Darwin’s finches, and from the wild turkey of the Americas to the emperor penguin as potent symbol of the climate crisis, this is a fascinating, eye-opening, and endlessly engaging work of natural history.

Transcript

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0:00.0

This is CBSI in the world.

0:05.0

I'm John Batchel with the very generous Stephen Moss, the BBC producer and author of Ten Birds that Changed the World.

0:13.0

This next story took my breath away.

0:17.0

It's about something humble called the Sparrow.

0:20.0

We have sparrows everywhere. They sing. This is called the sparrow. We have sparrows everywhere.

0:21.5

They sing.

0:23.2

This is the tree sparrow.

0:25.2

And it's the tree sparrow of Asia, the tree sparrow of China, the People's Republic of China.

0:31.5

In December of 1958, Mao Zitong, the leader of the Chinese Communist Party, declared four vermin's must be wiped

0:41.6

out. Rodents, mosquitoes, flies, and the tree sparrow. What follows is astonishing.

0:50.9

Stephen, I want to make sure, rodents, mosquitoes, flies flies and sparrows, they're not the same thing.

0:57.0

But focusing on the sparrow, what kind of sparrow?

1:00.0

What did it look like?

1:01.5

It's a bird that actually found in Britain.

1:04.0

We are used to the house sparrow, which you, of course, have in the United States, because it was brought there by mistake.

1:09.4

This is a close relative to that. It's

1:11.2

not related to the American sparrows really. It's a seed-eating bird. It was very common in

1:16.5

China in rural and urban areas. Now what you have to remember about Chairman Mao is even

1:22.4

compared to other dictators like Stalin and Hitler and dare I say certain former US presidents.

1:31.3

One of the problems with Mao is that he had absolute power.

1:36.3

I mean all dictators are powerful, but he took it to a different level.

1:40.3

So when he told 650 million Chinese people to go out and kill the sparrows because they were eating the grain, so he was hoping that by killing the sparrows the harvest would be bigger, they'd lose less grain, which sounds quite logical. They obeyed him and they went out and did it. The problem he didn't understand and he was told it

...

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