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Hello and welcome to political thinking, a conversation with, rather than a news interrogation

of, someone who shapes our political thinking about what has shaped theirs.

My guess this week is a daughter of what we still euphemistically call the Troubles, the 30

years or more of violence which scarred Northern Ireland and the British mainland

divided communities and claimed the lives of more than 3,000 people.

Emma Little Pingellie is the new deputy first minister of Northern Ireland. She grew up on the border

with the south, the place with the highest death toll outside Belfast. Her father was arrested and imprisoned in France for involvement in arms trafficking,

for hardline loyalists back in the 1980s, something he still denies to this day,

though he did once say publicly he would oppose compromise to the bitter end, to the death.

Compromise that is with people like the first minister of Northern Ireland, Michelle O'Neill of Sinn Féin's father was an IRA prisoner.

The two leaders, the first minister and the deputy first minister,

and now seen by many as a symbol of compromise.

But as you'll hear from our conversation, Emma Little Pingellie thinks that unionism is

misunderstood.

She will not apologize for her past her fathers or anybody else's,

and she still does say a very firm no to Irish unity.

Emma Little Bengali, deputy first minister of Northern Ireland.

Welcome to Political Thinking.

Hello, it's great to be here.

I'm struck by the image I've just seen before you came to do this interview.

There you were standing alongside the First Minister of Northern Ireland,

...