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Stuff To Blow Your Mind

The Devil You Know, Part 1

Stuff To Blow Your Mind

iHeartPodcasts

Social Sciences, Natural Sciences, Life Sciences, Science

4.45.9K Ratings

🗓️ 26 August 2025

⏱️ 55 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In this episode of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, Robert and Joe discuss the psychological, economic and decision theory phenomenon known as ambiguity aversion. Find out how it relates to the Ellsberg paradox, madman theory and the balance of power in our world.

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Transcript

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0:00.0

This is an I-Heart podcast.

0:06.6

There's a vile sickness in Abbas town.

0:10.4

You must excise it.

0:12.8

Dig into the deep earth and cut it out.

0:16.7

From IHeart podcasts and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manky,

0:20.0

this is Havoc Town. A new fiction podcast set in the Bridgewater Audio Universe, starring Jules State and Ray Wise.

0:29.1

Listen to Havoc Town on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:37.2

Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of IHeart Radio.

0:47.0

Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind.

0:49.6

My name is Robert Lamb.

0:51.0

And I'm Joe McCormick.

0:52.3

And in today's episode, we're going to begin a series in which we

0:55.8

look at a phenomenon studied in psychology, economics, and decision theory, which is called

1:02.1

ambiguity aversion. Ambiguity aversion is when we prefer risks with known probabilities over risks with unknown probabilities,

1:14.2

even if you have no reason for thinking that the unknown risks will be worse than the known

1:19.2

risks.

1:20.4

And we'll get to some concrete examples and foundational research on this in a bit, but to an approximation,

1:26.8

a good way to think about this is that ambiguity aversion is the sentiment expressed in the saying better the devil you know than the devil you don't. This is an aphorism. I feel like people often quote when they're about to justify making a really bad or indefensible decision.

1:46.2

And the whole point of this saying is that the devil you know is already bad. That's usually implied.

1:52.7

And there's no indication that the devil you don't know will be worse. It could well be a kinder, gentler devil with a less pointy pitchfork. But still, we often find

2:03.4

ourselves thinking, I'd just rather stick with the one where I know how pointy it is up front.

2:09.4

Yeah, it's often a form of indecision. Like, okay, I refuse to do anything about the current devil

...

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