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The Indicator from Planet Money

The curious case of odious debt

The Indicator from Planet Money

NPR

Business

4.79.2K Ratings

🗓️ 9 March 2022

⏱️ 10 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

A dispute going back to 2013 involving Russia and Ukraine and $3 billion in bonds has revived a discussion about a legal concept called odious debt. What is it and how does the current conflict complicate the case?

Transcript

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0:00.0

NPR.

0:11.2

This is the undercut of From Planet Money, I'm Darren Woods.

0:13.8

The Russian invasion of Ukraine and the response of much of the international community in the

0:18.3

form of sanctions shows how economic tools can be wielded as weapons.

0:23.8

Government finance is not just some impersonal exercise in number crunching, it can take on

0:29.0

this moral dimension.

0:30.0

Planet Money's well and long is here, hi well.

0:33.0

Hi Darion, yeah, this question of morality and government finance is a really big one.

0:38.5

And right now there is another dispute between Ukraine and Russia that really speaks to this

0:43.2

issue.

0:44.2

It's a legal dispute over $3 billion in Ukrainian bonds that Russia bought in 2013.

0:50.6

And to understand what's at the heart of this conflict, we have to introduce a concept

0:54.6

with an incredibly evocative name, Odyes Debt.

0:58.5

Yes, Odyes Debt.

0:59.5

I first heard you talk about this term last week and I had to dig in and learn more about

1:05.1

it.

1:06.1

So Odyes Debt was first coined in 1927 by a Russian emigrate and law scholar named Alexander

1:11.7

Sack.

1:12.7

This is sort of a 1927 hashtag that has come through to this day and retain.

1:19.0

Anna Gelfren is a law professor at Georgetown who studies government debt and financial regulation.

1:24.4

And the basic concept of Odyes Debt is this.

1:27.2

If a tyrant or a despotic government borrows money, the next government shouldn't have to

...

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