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Hi and welcome to Spycast from the Secret Files of the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

I'm Dr. Andrew Hammond, the Museum's historian and curator.

Every week, Spycast brings you conversations with practitioners, authors and scholars who live in the world of global espionage.

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You know, I'm really excited to speak to you about this because a lot of our listeners know the Pankovsky story, but some of them don't.

So can you just tell us what your movie is about?

Well, yeah, it's about the, it's actually really about the relationship between Ola Pankovsky and Crepa Winn.

It's a sort of unusual spy movie that it is about a relationship as much as it's about what they did together.

And as some of your listeners will know, the Ola Pankovsky was a war hero who was working for the GRU.

He actually had had diplomatic placements and had been in, I think, Istanbul.

What I have to, I have to make a quick disclaimer, which is I made this one over two years ago and some of the information, which was I'd cry.

Yeah, I'm fascinating.

I've lost, but I'm not feeling and he had, his dad was a white Russian had been a white Russian who'd been killed by the Soviets in the Civil War.

So he sort of already had a sort of quiet private resentment towards them.

But what happened was once they found this information out, the Soviets, which was not till about 60, something like that, 60 really close the beginning of this film.

They sort of blocked his advancement because he was very ambitious.

He was quite a well-known guy.

And so at that point, he sort of said, right, I'm out.

And he had his ear to the ground.

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