The Chopping Block: Tornado Cash on Trial, Crypto Privacy in Crisis, and Robert’s LQR House Takeover - Ep. 880

Unchained

Laura Shin

News, Tech News, Business News

4.5 • 1.3K Ratings

🗓️ 2 August 2025

⏱️ 56 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. In this episode, things get personal as Haseeb and Tom break their silence on the DOJ’s shocking threat to criminally charge Dragonfly over its early investment in Tornado Cash. With Roman Storm’s trial nearing its conclusion, the crew unpacks the unprecedented legal risks facing developers, investors, and privacy protocols and what it means for the future of crypto in the U.S. As Ethereum celebrates its 10th anniversary, a storm brews in court: Samourai Wallet founders plead guilty, the DOJ backpedals on Dragonfly, and Roman Storm faces decades behind bars for writing code. Robert recounts his short-lived microcap M&A adventure (aka the Liquor Store Fiasco), and the gang reacts to a dramatic regulatory about-face from the SEC’s new crypto-friendly regime. Is financial privacy now a crime? Will U.S. law catch up with crypto code? And what happens when TradFi tries to CT a public company? This episode hits hard — and nothing is off limits. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. Show highlights 🔹 Dragonfly Named in Court – Haseeb and Tom break their silence after the DOJ threatens criminal charges over Dragonfly’s Tornado Cash investment. 🔹 Roman Storm on Trial – The Tornado Cash co-founder faces up to 45 years as the government tests the limits of crypto developer liability. 🔹 DOJ Walks It Back – After a media firestorm, prosecutors publicly reverse course and say Dragonfly is not a target. 🔹 Samourai Wallet Pleads Guilty – Another privacy project folds under pressure — and possibly to bolster the Tornado Cash case. 🔹 Privacy Protocols Under Siege – The crew asks: Is building immutable software now a criminal act in the U.S.? 🔹 Tarun Breaks Down Autonomous Code – Why the government’s case against smart contracts reveals a deep misunderstanding of how DeFi works. 🔹 Robert’s Liquor Store Saga – CT’s favorite meme investor explains how he tried to take over a public company… and got mega-diluted. 🔹 SEC’s Project Crypto Leaks – Paul Atkins lays out a sweeping vision for crypto-friendly regulation and software protections. 🔹 Crypto’s Legal Future Hangs in the Balance – From subpoenas to policy pivots, this episode explores what’s next for developers, investors, and privacy itself. Hosts: ⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly ⭐️Robert Leshner, CEO & Co-founder of Superstate ⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures ⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly ⁠Disclosures⁠ Links: American Leadership in the Digital Finance Revolution, by Paul S. Atkins, SEC Chairman https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/speeches-statements/atkins-digital-finance-revolution-073125 Timestamps 00:00 Intro 01:58 Background on Tornado Cash 03:50 Legal Challenges & Sanctions 06:36 DOJ's Actions & Dragonfly's Response 11:25 Implications for Privacy & Crypto 27:06 Samourai Case & Broader Implications 33:37 Robert's Liquor Store Saga 37:17 LQR House Challenges & Legal Issues 46:05 Lessons Learned from the LQR House 50:01 SEC's New Crypto Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	A criminal case is not the place to adjudicate a policy question.
0:04.8	If you want to say that we believe the national security interests outweighs the individual's privacy interest, okay, go pass a fucking law that says that and then make it very clear to everybody involved what the law is supposed to be.
0:16.6	But if the law that you have passed does not say that, if the guidance that you have given does not say that, the way to adjudicate this is not through a criminal case.
0:26.3	Not a dividend.
0:27.5	It's a tale of two pawn.
0:28.6	Now, your losses are on someone else's balance.
0:31.4	Generally speaking, air drops are kind of pointless anyways.
0:34.0	I'm into trading firms who are very involved.
0:37.0	I like that eat is the ultimate policy. DFI protocols are the antidote to this problem. Hello, everybody. Welcome to Chappenbach. Every couple weeks, the four of us get together and give the industry insider perspective on the crypto topics of the day. So quick intro is first you got Tom, the Dy Maven and Master of Memes. Hello, everyone.
0:57.4	Thanks, you got Robert, the Cryptoconisur, and Tsar of Super State.
0:58.1	Bonjour. And we've got Tarun, the Gigabrain, and Grand Puba and Gauntlet. Yo. And finally, I'm Hesiv, the head hype man at Dragonfly. So we are early stage investors in crypto, but I want to caveat that nothing we say here is investment advice, legal advice, or even life advice.
0:56.1	Please see chopping blocks at XYZ for more disclosures. We are early-stage investors in crypto, but I want to caveat that nothing we say here is investment advice, legal advice, or even life advice.
1:12.0	Please see chopping blocks at XYZ for more disclosures.
1:14.9	So Ethereum just turned 10 years old at the same time.
1:19.8	It's a kind of weird mood to celebrate because at the same time that Ethereum has just turned 10 years old, we also have a very important court case
1:27.8	that's currently going on, which is the case of Roman Storm. So Roman Storm, of course, is the
1:32.8	creator of Tornado Cash. And this is a weird episode because we, two of your co-host, are very
1:38.9	central to the story of what took place in the Tornado Cash case. So before we get into the story,
1:44.0	I think Robert and Turun
1:45.1	decided that they were going to go offline and sort of go privacy preserving in the spirit of
1:51.3	tornado cash. But so I'm going to give a little bit of background on the tornado cash case,
1:54.8	as well as what happened over the course of the last week. So tornado cash was originally
	...

Transcript will be available on the free plan in 23 days. Upgrade to see the full transcript now.

Previous episode | Next episode

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Laura Shin, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of Laura Shin and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.