BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, podcasts.

Hello and welcome to political thinking, a conversation with, rather than an interrogation

of someone who shapes our political thinking about what has shaped theirs.

My guest this week spends most of his time in prison, but he used to be a teacher of some rather troubled kids.

And they said there's been some graffiti done by ex-people in the boys' toilets.

And I'm afraid the graffiti says Mr Taylor is a something or other.

And she said, yeah, but the good news is he spelt it right.

Charlie Taylor is someone you may well not have heard of. He's proof of the fact that sometimes

the people who do the most to shape public policy are people who are rarely in the public eye.

A former head teacher of a school for kids with behaviour problems.

He was made behaviour czar by Michael Gove when he was Education Secretary.

Then he reviewed the youth justice system and he's now Chief Inspector of Prisons,

regularly tour in the country from prison to prison to check what's going on

behind those imposing walls and fences.

Charlie Taylor, welcome to political thinking.

Thank you. It's lovely to be here, Nick. I look at your job and you and I talk quite frequently on the Today program about your reports of Chief Inspector of Prisons. There are stories of

drug taking and gang violence and self-harm and mental health problems inside prisons, where do

you as you do your job find the hope? Well, I think in every prison we go to, we come across

people who are inspiring. So even in prisons that are in real difficulty, even when you go to a

jail like Wandsworth, I remember talking to one specific officer in there who was absolutely had a fire in the belly, really wanted the prison to go well. So despite the chaos around her, this was someone who wanted to make the prison work. And I think everywhere we go, despite the many challenges that we see in prisons, actually it's about the people. It's about prisoners who

want to come out and not re-offend, and it's about people who work in prisons who want to make

a difference.

...