And everybody, welcome to Dan Snow's History It.

This podcast is first broadcast on Holocaust Memorial Day 2022.

It's the day on which we remember the millions of people murdered in the Holocaust under Nazi persecution.

It's the day on which the camp of Auschwitz was liberated by the Soviet Red Army in 1945.

I've been lucky enough, that's the right word, to talk to some incredible survivors over the years, people who have survived Holocaust.

I remember Max Eisen is an apartment in Toronto telling me what it was like at Auschwitz, showing me his tattoos remained this day.

But I've also met wonderful historians who've been able to give me an overview, for example, Professor Mary Fulbrook, such a memorable chat with her about the strategic overview of the Holocaust.

And also people like Jack Fairweather who wrote about Vitold Pilecki, who was an extraordinary brave poll who volunteered to go into Auschwitz, so it could bring reports from the heart of the Nazi death machine to the rest of the world.

In this episode, I am privileged enough to be speaking to another survivor, a man called Thomas Gieve.

That's a pseudonym. It's a pseudonym he gave himself during his experiences in the Nazi camps.

And he felt that he could move on with the rest of his life if he gave that boy, his younger self, a name different to his real name.

He was separated from his mother on the infamous platform at Auschwitz, never saw her again, she didn't survive the war.

His father had escaped and was a refugee in Britain at the time.

And after all, he's reunited with his father, and rather than talk about his experiences, he decided to draw them.

And so we have this remarkable collection of drawings of Auschwitz. This is the Holocaust as you've never won, literally never seen it visualized it before through the drawings of a boy.

He actually started drawing the sketching inside the camp.

He did it for the purposes of resistance helping those who are planning on trying to escape or rising up against the German guards.

Those sketches don't survive sadly. What do survivors sketches he made just after the war, an early form of art therapy, not then an established recognized part of therapy, but one that Thomas embraced and pioneered in many ways.

It is extraordinary talking to him. It was a difficult conversation to be honest. He's an Israel and the nursing home we talked through his brilliant daughter.

If at the end of the biggest technical problem seemed to be my wife, they could hardly hear me. However, I think it's still worth bringing you this podcast, because it was a conversation with a very, very special man.

He also was a bit unwilling to talk about his experiences. One of the reasons he drew his experiences is because they're too painful to talk about.

So you'll have to forgive me if I don't seem to press for answers like I usually do. The last thing, this man deep into his 90s needs a survivor of the Holocaust, the man still living with that trauma is pestering questions from me.

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