I'm Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor-in-chief of the Atlantic, and this is The Atlantic Interview.

I'm talking with journalist Nicole Hannah-Jones.

She argues, and she has the data to prove it, that America's public schools can radically improve

with one fix, racial integration.

Things are acceptable for black children, are never acceptable for white children.

So if you want what white children get, you have to be where white children are.

That's what integration means for black kids.

I also should note here that Nicole Hannah-Jones is a certified genius.

Well, I haven't actually gotten an official letter that certifies me as anything.

Oh, really? I need to call them and ask when it's coming. Like step back. Genius.

She just won a MacArthur Fellowship this year for her work showing that segregated schools are

the norm in the United States and that this is hurting everyone. The MacArthur Foundation has given

her a grant of $625,000 with no strings attached.

She's going to use that money, I hope, to do good deeds.

You and I have both had these conversations together and separately with my colleague,

Tonanasi Coates, about the arc of history and which way it bends.

I've adopted the viewpoint of Barack Obama, which says that history is an arrow and that it

flies forward.

And sometimes it, you know, sometimes it doesn't fly exactly straight.

It veers a little bit, but it's going toward something.

So that the moral arc of the universe is long,

but it bends toward justice.

...