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The Ezra Klein Show

That Anxiety You’re Feeling? It’s a Habit You Can Unlearn.

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 20 April 2021

⏱️ 59 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This has been a bad year for the anxious among us — myself very much included. The pandemic was objectively terrifying. And many of us were trapped inside, with nothing we could do about it, severed from social connection and routine, with plenty of time to fret. But that almost gives anxiety, at least as I experience it, too much credit. This year, anyway, being anxious made sense. It so often doesn’t. Your mind has so much power and capacity, and there are so many real problems to solve or wonders to contemplate, and instead you’re obsessively ruminating over something that happened three years ago or might happen three years from now. So, what is anxiety? How do we learn it as a behavior? And more to the point, how do we unlearn it? Jud Brewer is an associate professor of psychiatry at Brown University, where he is the director of research and innovation at the Mindfulness Center. I’ve followed his work on meditation and addiction for years, and his new book, “Unwinding Anxiety: New Science Shows How to Break the Cycles of Worry and Fear to Heal Your Mind” applies that research to anxiety, which he understands as a kind of addiction. And just like with any addiction, you have to understand its rewards in order to begin addressing it. It’s a powerful framework, and one I’ve found useful in my own life. I’m not saying his book, or this conversation, cured me of anxiety. But it helped me understand it better. I hope it’ll do the same for you Recommendations: "The Art of Racing in the Rain" by Garth Stein "Barbarian Days" by William Finnegan "The Underground Railroad" by Colson Whitehead You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Rogé Karma and Jeff Geld; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld.

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm Mr. Klein and this is the Ezra Klein Show.

0:19.8

I am an anxious person.

0:21.5

I come from a family of anxious people and I'm going to be honest, it sucks.

0:26.6

Here's this line from the book The Way To Love by the Jesuit priest, Anthony Damello.

0:30.9

Great book by the way.

0:31.9

I don't talk that much about it, but it's one of my favorites.

0:35.3

But it describes my experience of this so perfectly.

0:39.1

He's not talking about anxiety, he's talking about the way human beings experience life,

0:42.2

but he writes, quote, think of yourself in a concert hall, listening to the strains of

0:47.1

the sweetest music.

0:48.8

When you suddenly remember that you forgot to lock your car, you're anxious about the

0:52.5

car, you cannot walk out of the hall and you cannot enjoy the music.

0:57.7

End quote.

0:59.1

That is often how life feels to me.

1:01.2

Things are objectively amazing.

1:02.6

I live in an age of antibiotics and vaccines in YouTube and the Marvel Cinematic Universe

1:07.1

and the internet and I have a family I love and a job I love and I'm healthy and I'm

1:10.9

privileged in a million ways.

1:13.3

And I'm still just spinning my mental wheels, like endlessly ruminating on things.

1:17.0

I don't want to be thinking about.

1:19.3

I pride myself on my own discipline and my own mind is so out of control.

1:23.9

So then in addition to whatever it is I'm worried about, I'm also metapist off at myself

...

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