I think that the way in which the cultural dimensions might have been underestimated is that

if we say that the home of those views between Thatcher and Boris Johnson was the Daily

Mail, really.

It was the Daily Mail that was the one that, and Paul Dacre, that was the kind of voice of traditional family

values. It was the one that was most hostile to immigration. It was the one that was most

concerned about sort of, you know, welfare dependency. I mean, Dacre himself sort of saw himself

as a great moralist, by all accounts. And Daker was concerned by culture first and economic second.

But I think that a lot of people were always much more focused on Murdoch.

And Murdoch, if you look at the – I think it's on the front cover of David Harvey's brief history of neoliberalism.

I may be wrong about that.

But, you know, often the faces of neoliberalism. I may be wrong about that, but, you know, often the sort of the faces of neoliberalism are

Reagan, Thatcher, Murdoch and the sort of, you know, this, what happened in the 80s with Murdoch and the Sun and the Times

is seen as being a great kind of moment of economic reform of deregulation, low taxes and so on.

And I think that a lot of people, I mean the left is obviously, particularly the Marxist left, obviously,

it has a materialist view of politics to ultimately, maybe not a crude one, but ultimately is more comfortable talking about material issues than

discursive and superstructural and cultural issues.

And therefore, believe that the right ascendancy was fundamentally about the reform of

capitalism.

And that may indeed be true.

But I think that there was perhaps a, not a disregard, but perhaps the DECA worldview may have

been under, underweighted in recognising what was going on in the country and what was going on in

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