I just wanted to read from your book because I thought it was a great rundown of how our

lady of Guadalupe's symbol has been deployed.

You say it is too simplistic to interpret the version of Guadalupe as merely religious.

Her image was emblazoned on protest banners for the United Farm Workers and in Latin's

social movements for immigration reform and cultural recognition.

She has been commissioned by Latin Catholics fighting against the closure of their parishes

by dioceses attempting to shore up their operating cost.

She has been deployed as a logo for Banamex, the second largest bank in Mexico.

Catholic pro-life groups marshal her image as an anti-abortion symbol.

The range of values and visions mapped onto her image underscores her contested meaning

for both religion and politics.

Things get very tricky because of course it's easy enough to project a kind of identification

with someone who has been dispossessed and oppressed in our society and to kind of narrate

things in a way where that becomes us, right?

Where we're the ones who are being disempowered and our backs are against the wall.

So you can kind of see the appeal of La Vierhyn with conservative groups, especially in

a U.S. context where there is a genuine sense that they are under attack, you know, what

is Patrick Deneen's, you know, abandoning defensive crouch conservatism, right?

There's a sense that we are being pushed out of public life, that our cultures under attack,

that families, that friendships, that institutions that we value are being rejected by society.

So you can see why the movement would be drawn to a figure like Guadalupe who is seen

as empowering, but also I think a lot of people haven't considered the possibility that

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