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[TEASER] Nationalism and the Error of Patriotic Socialism w/ Sina Rahmani and Nick

Upstream

Upstream

Politics, Society & Culture, News

4.9 • 1.8K Ratings

🗓️ 19 March 2024

⏱️ 20 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

You can listen to the full episode with Sina Rahmani of East is a Podcast and Nick of The Intervention Podcast by subscribing to our Patreon here: https://www.patreon.com/upstreampodcast

As a Patreon subscriber, not only will you get access to at least one bonus episode a month, usually two or three, as well as early access to certain episodes and other benefits like stickers and bumper stickers, depending on which tier you subscribe to, but you’ll also be helping to keep Upstream sustainable and allowing us to keep this project going. Find out more at Patreon.com/upstreampodcast or at upstreampodcast.org/support. Thank you.

The United States is the world’s leading purveyor of immiseration, destruction, death, and instability—as the swamp that sustains our current world order of monopoly capitalism and imperialism, the United States is still, and has been for a century now, the leading global hegemon, the imperialist super power that calls the shots on the world stage. Its drive towards accumulation and geopolitical dominance has wrought hell on the rest of the world’s nations and the planet itself. So why, then, are some so-called Marxists out there trying to wrap themselves up in a flag of U.S. patriotism?

Patriotic socialism, MAGA communism, red patriotism—these are just some of the names that have been used to describe a recent phenomenon that, although certainly has its antecedents in things like the LaRouche movement of the mid-20th century, has begun, again, to creep its way into the discourse, albeit mostly online, of the left.

What is this phenomenon and what does it get wrong? Why is it an error to attempt to wed U.S. nationalism with Marxism and communism? These are the questions we explore in this Patreon episode with our two guests: Nick, an organizer with the Party for Socialism and Liberation, or PSL, and a co-host of The Intervention Podcast, and Sina Rahmani, a podcast producer and host of the show East is a Podcast.

In this wide-ranging conversation we unpack the phenomenon of so-called patriotic socialism, and in doing so, explore many related topics ranging from nationalism more broadly, to the distinction between nationalism of the oppressed versus nationalism of the oppressor, the United States’s role of global hegemon, imperialism, and the revolutionary potential of the western working class.

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Transcript

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0:00.0

A quick note before we jump into this Patreon episode.

0:03.6

Thank you to all of our Patreon subscribers for making upstream possible.

0:08.2

We genuinely couldn't do this without you.

0:11.5

Your support allows us to create bonus content like this and to provide most of our content for free

0:18.1

so that we can continue to offer political education media to the public and help to build our movement.

0:25.0

Thank you comrades. We hope you enjoy this conversation.

0:30.0

Oh! Oh. The project of the United States as a state project is a project of settler

0:56.5

colonialism imperialism slavery and bourgeois nationalism right as a Marxist in the

1:02.3

US we have to take this very seriously if we want to

1:04.8

address like what we should rightfully view as like primary contradictions and

1:09.2

antagonists like in terms of the U.S. U.S.'s role as the imperial hegemony in this totalizing

1:15.4

imperialist system and also as like the antagonism that has developed as like

1:20.6

again like the settler colonial oppressor of so many nations that are oppressed

1:24.5

within like the borders of this nation state. To just simply collapse that crazy

1:29.9

complicated schizophrenic history of like all these different historical forces into like

1:36.8

oh America Good we have to push out our ruling class only.

1:41.1

Bro you got lost at Albuquerque somewhere, you took a wrong turn, like you don't know what you're

1:47.0

standing for, because like that project will never, ever break away from the ruling classes who birthed it, right?

1:55.4

Like that's part of its heademonic power is that it requires this like sort of

2:00.7

voluntary army of proletarians, mostly proletarian workers who believe in it.

2:07.0

So like all of that is to say that to simply like wash your hands of that and be like,

2:12.0

yeah man, we're just going to be

...

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