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What Next | Daily News and Analysis

TBD | If You Give A.I. a Nuke

What Next | Daily News and Analysis

Slate

News, Daily News, News Commentary, Politics

4.62.3K Ratings

🗓️ 30 November 2025

⏱️ 27 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

As the U.S. upgrades and updates its defense and military systems, the question isn’t whether A.I. will be integrated, but where, how much, and how much decision-making are we ceding to the machine? Guest: Josh Keating, senior correspondent at Vox and a fellow at the Outrider Foundation where he’s reporting on nuclear weapons and AI. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

We are going to start this episode in the very early morning of October 3rd, 1979,

0:11.9

when Jimmy Carter's National Security Advisor, Zabignev, Brzynski, got a phone call from his military

0:18.2

aid around 4 a.m. I asked Josh Keating to tell me the story.

0:23.8

Rijinsky was told that night that 220 missiles had been fired from Soviet submarines off the coast

0:29.9

of Oregon, which meant that he had just a few minutes on his hands to decide whether to call

0:35.6

up President Jimmy Carter and wake him up to tell him that the

0:39.2

U.S. was under nuclear attack. Josh covers foreign policy and national security at Fox. As the story goes,

0:48.0

Brzynski decided not to wake his wife because he figured she'd be better off dying in her

0:53.7

sleep if the attack was real.

0:56.6

Just before Brzynski called to wake up President Carter, his phone rang again.

1:01.5

His aide called back and said it had been a false alarm.

1:03.8

That it was a defective computer chip cost less than a dollar in a communication system

1:08.3

that had set off a false alarm.

1:16.6

Then, about four years later, came another near miss, this time on the Soviet side. This is the famous story of Lieutenant Colonel Stanislav Petrov, who his computer system

1:23.6

detected that the US had launched missiles, and he had a few minutes to decide whether to

1:29.3

call up the chain of command to Moscow to inform them that the Soviet Union is under attack,

1:34.0

which under Soviet nuclear doctrine meant they would have been required to retaliate by

1:37.8

launching all of the Soviet nuclear missiles. It turned out that the machine had just

1:43.2

misinterpreted the glint of

1:45.1

sunlight off of clouds as a missile attack. So, you know, it was a case where he decided to wait

1:50.9

a few minutes and confirm, and it turned out that it was the machinery that was at fault.

2:08.5

Once again, full-scale nuclear war was averted, pulled back from the brink by humans.

...

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