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I started my conversation with Ron Lieber by reading him a little bit of a press release.

Ron writes the Your Money column for the New York Times, and I wanted his take on an announcement from September of 2021.

An announcement from JP Morgan Chase, the country's biggest bank, saying it was buying a startup called Frank.

Frank's business was supposedly built around helping students navigate the financial aid system. And JP Morgan Chase wanted in.

So much so that they reportedly paid $175 million for Frank.

Here's the part I read to Ron. Frank offers a unique opportunity for deeper engagement with students.

Together, we'll be able to expand our capabilities for students and their families, helping them financially prepare for college and other major moments in their future.

How much do you think JP Morgan Chase regrets those words now?

Well, think about it this way, Lizzie. They don't regret trying to chase after 20-somethings who might have a half-century of financial services customer-dom in their future.

This is something they very much want to do. But I think they deeply regret not having asked another 5-10, relatively basic questions about the enterprise.

The enterprise that they were purchasing and the founder behind it.

Because according to JP Morgan, Frank was not all it seemed. Nor was Charlie Javice, the woman who started it.

In fact, JP Morgan says pretty much the whole thing was a lie. And now the bank is suing Javice, saying it was the victim of fraud.

Listen to JP Morgan's CEO, Jamie Dimon, on the bank's recent earnings call.

What? And I was just thinking one way or another was a huge mistake.

Which is like, CEO's never say that. They never say that kind of thing.

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