Welcome to the New York Times Popcast, your Hockey Shingard, question mark, of music news and criticism.

I'm your host, John Carrey, Monica. That was Tate McCray,

greedy, Tate McCray, the popular,

somewhat popular, Canadian pop star,

who's been having a bit of a run

in the last

six to 12 months,

but has been trying to have a bit of a run for a little bit longer.

Tate McCray has been on my mind recently for a few reasons, not solely the

aesthetics of her music videos, which are unique, but also because Tate McCray has felt very much to me like a performer who is very mindful of what the expectations of a female pop star are right now and have been for the last couple of years.

A phrase that kicks around Twitter and Tik-Toc and other fan spaces is main pop girl. It's an idea, it's a category, I don't know if there can only be just one, but it's a goal, especially for a lot of younger female pop singers,

to be a main pop girl.

And I wondered, over time, where did that idea come from, who started it, can you choose to be a part of it, or is it imposed upon you, or are you deemed it, are united knighted as it were, Maine pop girl,

and I want to get under the hood of that whole thing.

To have that conversation, Laura Chappal and Jason B. Frank are going to call in

to talk to us about the history of Maine Pop Girl.

Doa, Tate, Ari, Billy, Taylor,

question mark, and many more.

So here we are. Joining us, it's two pop-cast veterans. First,

Larissa Paul is here. Larissa, hello, welcome.

Hello, thank you for having me.

Larissa is a staff writer at Rolling Stone,

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