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Forest, all right, forest, all right. 4404 Hey, here's the second in our series of pod talks, which explore some of the big ideas from the world of Forrest 404.

I'm Palmaki, I play Pan in the drama, and my other job today is to introduce you to Cosmo Sheldrake.

He's a musician and a songwriter,

and he's going to talk to us about how the sound of the natural world is changing.

I want to play this recording of Lincoln Meadow in the Sierra Nevada Mountains

that was recorded by Bernie Krauss in 1988.

This recording I'm about's place shows the healthy ecosystem

just before a logging company went and selectively logged.

So he went back a year later after it was logged

and recorded in similar weather conditions on a similar day

at a similar time of year.

And this is what he heard.

To the eye, Lincoln Meadows looked remarkably similar before and after it was logged,

but to the ear, and by listening to it,

we can hear that a huge amount has changed,

and the biodiversity was greatly impacted by the selective logging.

So sound can be a much more helpful way of understanding the health of an ecosystem than sight

and often in dense forest environments where you can't see very far.

By listening and recording we can hear way further than we can see

and understand much more about the complex interactions

between different species in the area.

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