So Connie, there I was, on the planet far, far away.

Really, Trevor?

Ground was so soft, so squishy.

Must have been zero gravity.

Maybe you were just on a memory foam mattress.

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Welcome to the history Extra podcast, fascinating historical conversations from the makers of BBC History Magazine.

What can St Augustine tell us about attitudes to grief in the Middle Ages? What made women steer

clear of the shrine of St Cuthbert? And why did pilgrims bring gifts of wax to the dead saint,

William of Norwich? In his new book, Medieval Saints and Their Sins, Luke Daly reveals what the lives and

afterlives of saints can tell us about the thoughts and fears of the Middle Ages.

Luke spoke to Emily Griffith for today's episode.

Today we're going to be talking all about your book, Medieval Saints and Their Sins.

But first off, I think we need to get to grips with the

Saints, the Saints 101 as it were. So to put it broadly, what exactly were saints in the Middle Ages?

What was the definition? Yeah, that's a difficult question because it changes. And so you've, there's a very clear kind of before

and after, which is with the Norman conquest, because the Normans bring in these sort of rules

and regulations about what it means to be a saint. So it's very easy to kind of understand what

that is from that point onwards. In general terms, a saint was a

holy figure. They were someone who lived a very pious life, an exemplary life, and was, in a way,

a case study that people could follow. But in terms of then veneration and becoming a saint,

...